Super excited to share with you my interview with Denise Duffield-Thomas, my mindset mentor. I can't wait to share with you all of her goodness.
Listen into the interview here:
Prefer to read? Here’s the transcript of my interview with Denise Duffield-Thomas.
Sylvie: Hey, guys. It's Sylvie from sylviemccracken.com. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Denise Duffield-Thomas from luckybitch.com. Denise is a Money Mindset Coach for female entrepreneurs, the creator of the Lucky Bitch Money Bootcamp, and she is the blogger behind luckybitch.com. Thank you so much, Denise, for being with us today.
Denise: Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to connect finally.
Sylvie: I know.
Denise: Yeah. It's really nice to chat with your audience and we're going to have some juicy conversations about money.
Sylvie: Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. Mindset. Here's the thing. Some of the people that are going to be listening, some of the people that are tuning in and reading the blog are new to this concept of mindset and are wondering, “Well, what is the term mindset? What does that mean and what is mindset work exactly?” How would you explain it to a newbie?
Denise: Yeah. In business, I think there are two really important things. You need a plan and a strategy, right. You need to know what you have to do next and what are all the moving pieces to your business. That's usually your marketing or your systems, and all the logistics stuff. Now what I find is almost probably more important for entrepreneurs is dealing with all the mindset stuff around your stories, your beliefs, your fears, all the yucky stuff that can really, really derail entrepreneurs. I always say that being in business for yourself, it's the best personal development you can ever do.
Sylvie: For sure.
Denise: Because it's going to bring up all your fears and insecurities about yourself, and there's some stuff to unpack around that. I think that mindset piece is really so key to being successful in business. It goes really hand in hand with the actual business strategy stuff.
Sylvie: Yeah. It's funny because when I first started, I didn't really understand that concept and I just dove in like a lot of us do.
Sylvie: Then along the way, I started realizing, “Huh? This isn't really a strategy problem or a tactic problem. There's something else here,” right? The funny thing is I found you probably two years ago now because I know I just looked actually to figure out when is it that I joined your bootcamp and it's almost two years ago now, which is crazy.
Sylvie: Yeah. It's interesting because at that point I realized, “Okay, mindset definitely is a part of this gig, but how big of a part is it,” right? What do you see in your students, in your clients over the years, what would you say as far as how much of it is a mindset work and how much of it is actually figuring out Facebook ads and everything else?
Denise: Sometimes I say it's 80-20 where it's 80% mindset work, but the truth is I think it shifts and changes over time because the lessons that you learn are different over time and the things that scare you at the start of your business won't be things, they'll just be normal, run of the mill things. For example, when you first start out and you get your first refund request, it's horrible and your mindset can really derail at that point because you might start thinking, “People don't like me, it's because my stuff's really bad. I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't be in business. I'm not cut out for this.” Whereas if you see it as a normal rite of passage, when you're a little bit further on in your business, you just go, “Oh, refund requests are just part of being in business. They're inevitable. It's statistical. It's just nothing to be scared of.” I think at that stage, mindset is so important at those early stages, but they all layer on top of each other. If you're successful and you have a six- or seven-figure business, and you just neglect your mindset for a couple months, that old stuff is going to come back. It's going to creep in again, the old fears, the old stories are going to creep back. The good news is though it's like muscle memory, to get to that point again, it doesn't take as much work later on as it does at the start. It's still important just …
Sylvie: Like a tune up.
Denise: Yes, exactly, it's maintenance. You go into maintenance mode with it I think because there are no real advance strategies to run mindset because the basics work again and again and you just have to …
Denise: It's like hygiene. Like Zig Ziglar talks about it, you have to work on your mindset like taking a shower because otherwise you get just dirty.
Sylvie: Right, it doesn't last.
Denise: No, it doesn't. It doesn't last for anybody. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it doesn't last. It doesn't matter how rich you are. You pretty much still have to have a shower everyday.
Sylvie: Right. That's the bad news about mindset, right? Do we ever graduate? Do we ever tick the box and say, “Okay, I've done the mindset work. Now I can go, I can never revisit that again and just go do the other stuff.”
Denise: No, never ever, ever.
Denise: As I said, the good news is that things scare you today, won't scare you tomorrow.
Denise: You evolve in the shift, the things that you're working on, but the other good news I suppose is you can start to see it as being a lifelong learner.
Denise: I think at the start of your business, you're like, “Oh, I need to do another course because I'm broken or I need somebody to fix me.” After a while you realize, “Oh, I don't need to be fixed, but I do this because I love it and I love finding the different tweaks and angles,” and it becomes a fun process of exploration rather than a really heavy, like “Oh, there's something wrong with me that I need to fix.”
Sylvie: Right. Yeah, I love that, I love that terminology around it and that's a mindset shift in and of itself, right, just flipping it to growth work and not this super in-depth “cleansing” of sorts, right.
Denise: Yeah. Yes, but part of being a lifelong learner.
Sylvie: Absolutely. If somebody's saying, is having a reaction to this going, “Okay, well, that sounds great, but that doesn't apply to me. I don't have any mindset issues,” how would you say this shows up for people? What are the “symptoms” of something that might be a mindset issue, but it's showing up in disguise under another umbrella?
Denise: I love that you asked this because this always happens and I think sometimes men do it as well. They're like, “It's not a mindset issue. I just need to have better staff members,” or I've got a friend who fires people all the time and she's like, “It's always them.” I'm like, “No, it's not. It's you, totally you.” Some of the symptoms are recurring problems, right. If there's a recurring problem in your life, there's a mindset issue that you're not dealing with, there's a story and a belief that you're not dealing with. Let me give you a really concrete example. Say that you go, “Oh, I need to do some outsourcing, but everyone I've hired is terrible. My people, they don't do the work and they rip you off, and I can't find anyone good.” That's just a BS story and usually the underlying money block around that is I have to do everything myself. I have to work really hard to make this money and if I “cheat” by getting other people to help me and I just work on the stuff that's easy and enjoyable for me, then I won't really be earning the money. I'll be doing something kind of unethical and weird. I see everything like there's always an underlying mindset issue that you can either fix or tweak to make things much easier for you. Symptoms, procrastination is a huge one. It's like, “Oh, there's something in me that's stopping me.” “Oh, it's just procrastination.” “No, maybe it's a story you have around selling or sales or you're not allowed to do something that you love.” Recurring problems around staffing or not outsourcing, burning yourself out. Reinventing the wheel is a big one where entrepreneurs go, “Oh, well, I've launched that course and I've done that now. We're just going to chuck it out and start something else,” and it's because you're trying to justify making the money all the time.
Sylvie: Right. It's that story of having to work really hard to make the money.
Denise: Yeah, absolutely or, “Everyone's seen this so I'm not going to launch again.” “No, five people saw it. Launch it again.”
Sylvie: Totally. That's perfect for my audience because there's two big things that I teach and one is outsourcing, hiring your first assistant and all of that, and there's always a big resistance to that and usually, it's a big relief once they've actually gone through it. Then the other one is creating passive income with eBooks. There's this whole thing around, “Eew, passive income, that just sounds scammy,” but then there's also this writing process of “Who am I to be the expert, who am I to write this eBook?” What's really interesting is that shows up as procrastination and writer's block, but then there's also not only that hesitance to get started, but when they get to 90% done and by they, I mean I'm including myself because this has totally happened to me when writing my eBooks, get to 90% mark and then all of a sudden, we don't have time.
Sylvie: All of a sudden, nothing happens for six weeks and there's that big stall. How would you explain that mindset block? Why is it at 90% that we get to that point and we're like, “You know what? I'll revisit that soon enough?” Sure enough, months go by and you have that book sitting on your hard drive.
Denise: Yeah. It's the same thing. It's always about this has to be really hard, this has to be really hard, but I tell you what's really interesting. Let's go beyond that, right. Often people get through that through sheer will power and the only way I got through writing my first couple of eBooks is public accountability. I would tell people like, “It's for sale on this date. It's for sale next week. It's for sale tomorrow.” Then I was like still writing it going, “Oh, I’ve told people, why did I tell people?” It's the only way I got through that resistance is to …
Denise: Because I didn't want to let anyone else down. I was happy to let myself down, but I didn't want to let other people down. Here's going beyond that, right. When I did my first eBook, I had it done and I did not want to tell people about it. I didn't put it on my website. I don't know how people found it, but every time someone bought it, I'd be like, “Don't buy it.” That was the energy I put out because I thought, “They're not going to like it. They're going to ask for a refund. They're going to spot a typo and then they're going to know I'm a horrible big fraud.” The truth was I felt really guilty. I felt guilty to be making money out of something that I'd already done and I didn't have to work any harder for. I honestly felt every time someone bought it, I thought, “I should ring them up and read it out loud to them over the phone,” to earn that money.
Denise: It's like, “How am I allowed to earn $10 from a person and I wrote that a year ago?” It took me ages to get over the actual letting people buy it block, let alone finishing it.
Sylvie: Wow. That's incredible. Yeah, I love that you dove into it that far to where you've really made it clear what these blocks are because they're going to keep showing up in other areas, right, if you're not attacking them.
Denise: They do and the numbers change and I think, here's what I say to people, “Absence of blocks is not the goal.” You're not trying to become perfect and you're completely resistance-free person because it's not possible. What you want to try and do is be in action and creating abundance in your life and deal with your money blocks like on a maintenance plan. That's totally cool. I just told you that about resisting that $10 from that eBook, I still resist passive income even though the numbers are much bigger and I have a seven-figure business. Someone recently a couple of months ago said, “How do I find out about your bootcamp? Is it some sort of secret club that I need to know the password for?” I was like, “No, no. It's on my website,” but it was kind of hidden.
Denise: Same thing, right. It's the same money block that comes up in different ways. If you spend all your time trying to be perfect and wait until you have no money blocks before you get in action, you're never going to get very far.
Sylvie: Do you find that for some people, you have these five set of money blocks that keep coming up for you over and over and over again, that they are the difficult ones for you, and I might have five different ones, maybe some of them coincide, but maybe one of them doesn't trigger me the way it triggers you and vice versa? Is that pretty accurate?
Denise: Definitely. Actually, one of the biggest things we do on the money bootcamp is we help people find out what their biggest trigger is because it will come up again and again. The cool thing about having so many people already in a bootcamp is that you can learn from each other and learn from each other's triggers because you can go, “Oh, well, I've come so far. That doesn't bother me at all anymore. That's really cool.” Then someone else might show something and you're going, “Oh, that just reminds of a memory that I need to clear because I'm living that today.” Yeah, it's cool and interesting seeing what different things trigger different people.
Sylvie: Right, right. Yeah, totally makes sense. If someone is thinking, “Okay, this all sounds a little weird. Money blocks, what is this? Mindset work, that just sounds like a bit of woo-woo, a bit crazy,” but they're thinking maybe they're ready to dip their toe in and say, “All right, let's see. Sylvie and Denise, I'm pretty sure you're crazy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just dip my toe in this mindset work and find out a little bit more.” What would you say the baby step in mindset work is?
Denise: Yeah. I think listen to one of my audios and I know, Sylvie, you are a proud affiliate of mine so you can link to some of my free resources.
Sylvie: For sure.
Denise: For example, my money blocks audio where I talk about how bartering is a money block and how some of the little things you might do in your business, you don't even realize are money blocks. I think that's the first step and a lot of people actually say, “Denise, I didn't realize or I didn't think I had money blocks until I read your book.” At first I was thinking, “Oh, no, I've created all these money blocks in people.” It's like when you start looking at Googling symptoms, you're like, “I'm going to die.”
Sylvie: Right, right. I'm terminal.
Denise: Yes, exactly and that's not. What I want people to know is that everyone has some sort of form of resistance.
Sylvie: Right, yeah.
Denise: It's really, really normal. I think the first step is just to be aware of how you talk about money and maybe explore where some of your beliefs might've come from as a kid. I always thought because I didn't have very much money as a kid, I thought, “Well, your life would be perfect if you had money, if you grew up with money.” Now because I've worked with so many, thousands of women on their money blocks, I realized that the amount of money you had as a kid growing up has no correlation to how you feel about money as an adult. It's all about the stories and how people talked about money in your family and that's where you get your blocks from. It's actually not the reality and that's true even now as an adult. You see people in like the money bootcamp, some people are living incredibly abundantly on a smaller salary and other people have got massive big million dollar goals, where you want to get to is a place where you just feel really good in yourself and creating your version of a first class life. The awareness piece is the first step; it's just starting to just be in exploration around it.
Sylvie: Right. Some of those things like money doesn't grow on trees and, I can't even remember, but I …
Denise: You don't get something for nothing is one.
Sylvie: Right, right, exactly. You have to save. You have to whatever, all that ferments the whole you have to work hard to make money, which as a parent now, I'm like constantly catching myself and holding it back and going, “How can we rephrase that,” because it's interesting how those things that you've been hardwired are coming up for you now regardless of how much money you have.
Denise: Yeah. Absolutely. Even for me when I had a kid, too, I'd already been teaching money work for a couple of years and things would come out of my mouth and I'm like, “Where did that come from? Wow, okay, that's a new layer to uncover.” You'll be full of situations like that for the rest of your career that you thought you might've cleared something and then you're like, “Oh, that's just a new layer to it. That makes sense,” which is why it's so important to be in community with women who are in that conversation to have safe spaces to talk about money really honestly and transparently.
Sylvie: Yeah. Upgrading your networking is a huge part of a first class life in my opinion. You talk about a first class life a lot and that's one of the exercises in the bootcamp. Can you give us a taste of incremental upgrades and why that's important, and what's this idea behind a first class life? What does that mean?
Denise: Yeah. The reason why I came up with this is because it's very clear like when you travel, it's very clearly demarcated. This is economy and this is premium economy. This is business class. This is first class. We can very clearly see and know what that feels like and looks like. One of the exercises I get people to do in the bootcamp is to look at everything in your life and rank it, not necessarily is it the most expensive and then that means that it's first class, but really how it makes you feel. There's things in your life that could be really expensive, but actually make you feel economy and that could be like an expensive handbag that you hate and it's not comfortable. You wouldn't rank that as first class if you don't love it. It's the same concept that Marie Kondo talks about does this spark joy in my life? That's a really enlightening exercise for people because they realize, “No wonder I feel broke because it's just everything in my life is pervasive in economy class of putting up with or compromising, of stuff that doesn't work or doesn't make me feel happy.” Then the concept of incremental upgrade is that you find things that really make you feel unhappy or poor, and you just upgrade them slightly to the next level. It could be that some things have a natural limit to where you upgrade them to. For example, your phone.
Denise: You're like you can have iPhone. It's the same phone that a billionaire might have, right.
Sylvie: Right, that's it, right. It doesn't get any better.
Denise: No, like you could get the 24-carat plated iPhone if you really want to, but then the idea is you go to where you feel really good and then you find other things that you like to upgrade. It's not about spending money that you don't have. It's not about buying things to impress other people or buying things just because they're expensive. It's about really practicing discernment, which is something that women don't really do often because we've been taught you get what you're given and you'll be happy with it.
Denise: It's that choice because we break it down into so many little different aspects. It's confronting for women because they're like, “What would I choose? If money wasn't an object, what would be my first class version of my key ring or my shoes?” It's not always what you think it would be. Sometimes, it's not about the money at all.
Sylvie: Right. That's funny because what I noticed comes up in the bootcamp just because we're in there and we see each other's things come up all the time is some of these things are so classic. With women, something as basic as, I don't know, underwear or something like that, right. We tend to have these things that we don't even think about, but that we are most definitely economy class. Is that right?
Denise: Yes. It seems sometimes that we're putting up with. Sometimes, the best, my favorite times in the bootcamp is when someone says, “Oh, my God. I've been putting up with this flickering light for a million years and I went and bought a $4 light bulb and it's changed my day.” It's those upgrades that you go, “Wow, that's satisfying,” those little things. Sometimes people do upgrades as downgrades. They're like, “Oh, I thought that would be really good and it wasn't so actually I'm going to cancel that subscription or I'm going to actually go back to what I liked before because that's first class for me.”
Sylvie: Totally. It's really interesting like you said, it's not about spending money you don't have because that wouldn't necessarily make you feel first class probably, but it's interesting because in the bootcamp, what I've noticed a lot, too, is that people are finding money that was there along and they just didn't realize it, whether that's a pile of gift cards they've been ignoring or checks they haven't cashed or all kinds of other craziness. Is that some sort of self-sabotage or how do you explain that?
Denise: It's so common. It's almost like pretending that the money isn't there or pretending that money is not important to them is sometimes a block, but the amount of times I hear from people that they've actually hit their money goals already, but they haven't allowed themselves to even see it or to notice it because they haven't been tracking their income. I think it's just there's a few things to unpack around it. Sometimes, it's like not wanting to brag so it's like, “Oh, if I just keep myself small and don't realize how abundant I am, I'm not going to piss anyone off or I'm not going to be too fancy or too big for my boots.” For some people it's not wanting to look at money because they've got an underlying story that they're not good with money. Maybe their parents said to them, “You're terrible with money.” They're perpetuating this drama around money. Sometimes, there's a symbolic income level that they're unconsciously trying to reject. This is my juicy one that I love. Sometimes, when people get close to a tax bracket, the next tax bracket, they're unconsciously pushing away money because they're like, “I don't want to even do that.” Maybe it's an income level from someone else in your life. You're like, “I can't make more than my parents,” so I'm just going to pretend that this money doesn't exist. Some people, women pretend that different sources of money don't count. They're like, “Oh, that's just paper money. That doesn't count.” It's like, “Oh, my client gave that to me in cash. That doesn't count,” even though they might pay tax on it, but it's like, “Oh, well, this counts, but this doesn't count. My husband's income counts because it's from a real job, but my income doesn't count because it's just me having fun talking to people. That doesn't count.” One of the refrains we always talk about in the bootcamp is all counts. Money is money. It totally counts. When you start to see money for it all counts, then you can think about it in different ways and you can allow it. You don't have to hide it anymore.
Sylvie: Right, right. That makes total sense. Is there a favorite mantra that you have that you would recommend for someone that's just starting out that could maybe help? I love some of those things that you share like your rubber band, which you might want to explain or having a mantra. You don't have it on?
Denise: Yeah. No, I think I took it off. It's actually here. I took it off for the interviews. I'm like, “You can't have a rubber band around your wrist during interviews.” I'm a huge fan of affirmations and mantras because when you change the way you speak and think, it's a pattern interrupter and it allows you then to think and feel in a different way. When you think about things in a different way and you speak such, watch your language, you act in different ways and you start acting in more positive, more, what's the opposite of passive? Hold on. My brain's gone.
Denise: Yeah, yeah, you're more proactive in ways as well.
Denise: Then when you act in proactive ways, the results are better. All those things start with pattern interrupters because then it becomes a flow on compounding effect. One that I love to use is “I serve, I deserve.” This is so important for women because we're so used to giving, giving, giving, and not receiving in return. It's like, “I have to give everything to everyone. I have to be of service,” but then we kind of go, “Oh, no, no, I don't need anything in return and I don't need to get paid for that. That's okay.” That mantra for me, it's a pattern interrupter to remind you that it's a giving and receiving. It's okay to give freely and it's okay to receive in return from that. That can be even on your blog. Say, for example, you do articles all the time, and you're giving, giving, giving. It's okay for you to then just say, “Hey, if you want to work with me further, here's my course.” Or, “Hey, here's a free sample of my book.” So many people then that's it. They go, “Here's a free chapter of my book.” Then they run away. It's like, “Oh, and by the way, you can buy the full version. Here's the link.” It's like that dance.
Sylvie: Right. Yeah, I love that one and I love, “It's my time and I'm ready for the next step.” I feel like those two are ones that I always go back to that are yours because they help and they help my students in the course as well. The whole like when people have been giving away content for so, so long and they're ready to put out their very first product, that comes up a lot and the “I serve, I deserve” is huge. It's like you've been …
Denise: It is.
Sylvie: Ninety percent of your stuff is freely available to everyone. Yes, you absolutely can sell that other 10%.
Denise: Absolutely. Another one I've been using recently is my face is my fortune and that reminds me to not hide and to be visible, to show up, do interviews, do Facebook lives, post pictures on social media of myself and just to show up. It's okay to be me. You don't have to be perfect, but just show up. That's always a good one, too.
Sylvie: Yeah, I love it. The last question for you would be how do you recommend keeping that abundance mindset when let's say you're just starting out in business, you've made very little money, which is how every one of us starts, and maybe you have debt even or everything on paper, black and white is showing you all kinds and not abundance and you're trying to stay in that abundance mindset, what would you recommend people do in order to keep that vibration high and not focus on the piles of debt and the lack of money coming in?
Denise: Yeah. One of the most important things is you have to be in community with people who are going where you want to go because I see a lot of beginners get stuck with other beginners and it can sometimes be like a bit of a dirty fishbowl, right, because they start to pollute each other with, “Oh, this is so hard. I don't know how to do this.” You need to be surrounded by people who can show you your future is really important, who can call you on your language, who can help you see that there's abundance in the world. You can see that people who are doing better than you or showing you where you need to go are normal people. I think that's a really key one. For me, when I was first starting in business and I saw people who were creating success, I was like, “Wow, and I know them,” like, “And they're just normal people. This is cool.”
Denise: I think community is a huge part of that. The second part is a mindset of apprenticeship, that it's okay for you to be in a space where you're learning and that you're growing and that it's leading to something.
Sylvie: This is just temporary basically.
Denise: Yes, absolutely. It's not forever, but my little brother is a plumbing apprentice and he knows, right. It's a four-year apprenticeship. He knows what he has to do each year to fulfill that apprenticeship. He knows his income goes up every year and he knows at the end of it, he's a qualified plumber. In business, nobody tells you how long your apprenticeship is. It could be 10 clients, 100 clients before you graduate to that next level and a lot of people give up because they feel like the apprenticeship is the reality and it's how it's going to be forever.
Denise: Instead of saying, “Hey, no. Next year, I'll be able to increase my prices or now's the time to add more services. I've filled that part of the apprenticeship of being a beginner. Now I can be a … ” What's the next one from beginner? “Now I'm in my next year apprentice.” Then, “Hey, then now I'm moving on,” but a lot of people get stuck in like, “This is it forever and there's no clients and can someone just tell me how much I should charge.” You have to be in that mindset of everything that's happening right now is part of my apprenticeship and it's a sign that I'm meant to be successful.
Sylvie: Yeah. It's not magic as well, right. There's that mindset issue and it fuels that proactive part of you where it's like, “Okay, if you believe you can do it, now you're going to take the steps and actually make it happen,” and what not. It's not an overnight magic solution, right.
Denise: It's not, but too many people see those little blips. It's like, “Oh, my God, a client refunded. That is a sign I'm not meant to be successful.”
Denise: Whereas a true apprentice mind goes, “Wow, now I've ticked off the first client defaulting level for my apprenticeship.”
Sylvie: And what can I learn from this?
Denise: Yeah. yeah, absolutely. Like, “Oh, I've got my first hey, “tough kick”.
Denise: That's a rite of passage, right. Instead of like, “Oh, my God.” Instead of seeing those obstacles, see them as milestones.
Sylvie: Yeah, I love it. I absolutely love that. This has been so, so helpful. I know my peeps are going to love it and we're going to turn it around quickly to get it up. Usually, it takes me a little while, but because you're in the middle of a launch and I want everybody to see all your goodness, depending on when you're watching this, Denise's bootcamp might be open for enrollment. You've got a live run this time, which I'm so excited about.
Sylvie: When is the live run? Usually the bootcamp is you pace yourself through the modules, but this time, you're going to have a live component, which means what?
Denise: Yes. Actually, it started off like this where I did four live rounds the first year, I think two in the second year. I couldn't sustain doing it back to back. I knew that people were like, “When's the next one? I need to work with my money stuff right now.” I knew that for myself, I'm an instant gratification person so I created the bootcamp so it was open enrollment. You get signed in, you work straight through the lessons and then you've got the community there. There's people working on different lessons at different times and it totally works. There's something about this energy that's happening right now where people, they're kind of like, “Oh, do I give up my business? Do I keep on going? Am I ready to go to that next level?” There's a lot of people who are at a plateau right now. I went, “You know what? We need a new live round with the bootcamp where we do it all together as a group.” We have live calls. We have Facebook lives in a group. We just have that momentum of everybody working on their money blocks, the same money blocks all at the same time. Now, we haven't done this in three years and I don't know if we'll do it again to be honest because I like the Evergreen model. It works for my lifestyle.
Sylvie: Totally, the chillionaire life.
Denise: Yeah, it totally does. Which by the way chillionaire is not my brand.
Sylvie: Right, right.
Denise: I'd love it if it was, but it was Kevin Nations' brand. I always have to correct people on that because Kevin might sue me for that. But it's true, right. I want things to be really easy and I role model that, but I think, too, the thing that I love to role model is we have to give people excuses to invest with you.
Denise: I knew that doing a live round, I've been asked so many times to do it, I was like, “Yeah.” And this is a great way to get people who are on the fence who know that they need to deal with their money stuff, but they need an excuse.
Denise: Bootcamp live is a brilliant excuse and we do have an early bird rate that finishes at 9PM Eastern on the 27th, Thursday, the 27th of October. Then the live calls start the following week.
Denise: That is your time to join. I know, Sylvie, you have an affiliate link to that as well.
Sylvie: I do. I'm going to post that below and I'm also going to post the link to your free audio and I'll be doing the live with you so for anyone that joins, I can't wait to see everybody there because I feel like that live component really helps. First of all, without deadlines, I'm convinced nothing would ever happen in the world. Two, I feel like a lot of the times, we need more than just the information. We sometimes need a little help getting through. We need help not falling off the wagon. The live version really helps us with that. If we have a chance to do it live, why not, right.
Denise: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great excuse to jump in. It'll be fun. I want to tell people, the bootcamp, it's not like being in prison and you have to learn these really heavy lessons. It's light and easy. It's still really deep. It's deep, rich work, but it's nothing to be scared about. You're not going to be publicly shamed for your money blocks and flogged as a group. It's fun. It's light. It's easy, but it's the deep transformation that you need to go to the next level.
Sylvie: Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Denise, for taking time out of your day to be with us. I really, really appreciate it.
Denise: Thank you. Thanks everyone. I'll see you in bootcamp.
Sylvie: All right.
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